Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 106
02/14/2008 03:00 PM House HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES
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| Overview: Alaska's Citizen Review Panel Presentation | |
| Overview: Department of Health and Social Services Office of Children's Services Update | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 14, 2008
3:02 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Peggy Wilson, Chair
Representative Bob Roses, Vice Chair
Representative Anna Fairclough
Representative Wes Keller
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Sharon Cissna
Representative Berta Gardner
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative John Coghill
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
OVERVIEW: ALASKA'S CITIZEN REVIEW PANEL PRESENTATION
-HEARD
OVERVIEW: DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES OFFICE OF
CHILDREN'S SERVICES UPDATE
-HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
SUSAN HEUER, Member
Alaska's Citizen Review Panel (CRP)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the overview on behalf of the
Alaska's Citizen Review Panel (CRP).
FRED VAN WALLINGA, Chair
Alaska's Citizen Review Panel
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the presentation
by the Alaska's Citizen Review Panel (CRP).
CAROL OLSON, Vice Chair
Alaska's Citizen Review Panel
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered a question during the presentation
by the Alaska Citizen's Review Panel.
LINDA LORD JENKINS, Ombudsman
Legislative Agencies & Offices
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the presentation
by the Alaska's Citizen Review Panel.
TAMMY SANDOVAL, Director
Office of Children's Services
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an update from the Office of
Children's Services (OCS).
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR PEGGY WILSON called the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:02:59 PM.
Representatives Gardner, Fairclough, Keller, Seaton, Cissna,
Roses, and Wilson were present at the call to order.
Representative Coghill was also in attendance.
^Overview: Alaska's Citizen Review Panel Presentation
3:03:31 PM
CHAIR WILSON announced that the first order of business would be
a presentation by the Alaska's Citizen Review Panel (CRP).
3:06:10 PM
SUSAN HEUER, Member, Alaska's Citizen Review Panel (CRP),
informed the committee that the Alaska's Citizen Review Panel
(CRP) is composed of volunteer members who are broadly
representative of the state, including members who have
expertise in the prevention and treatment of child abuse and
neglect. The CRP's vision is to enable the Division of
Children's Services (OCS), Department of Health and Social
Services (DHSS), to implement its policies and procedures for
children and families in a culturally sensitive and consistent
manner across the state. She further explained that the mandate
of the CRP is to evaluate OCS compliance with federal and state
laws, examine the policies, procedures, and practices of OCS,
and to make recommendations for changes. Ms. Heuer noted that
CRP members have travelled to 22 communities this year. When
travelling, the CRP split into teams to visit OCS offices and
their community partners, and asked about the success of
policies in each village or community. The CRP meets with many
citizens and groups who have interactions with OCS and have met
many lineworkers who, under difficult working conditions, are
going to heroic lengths to protect children. The CRP has
concluded that the current structure and operation of OCS is not
adequately protecting all of Alaska's children. For example, in
the Copper River Basin, including Tok, Kenny Lake, Chitina,
Gakona, Glennallen, Copper Center, and Valdez, community
partners said that the rate of child sexual abuse was 90
percent. Local law enforcement confirmed that the rate was at
least 80 percent; however, there were only six reports of harm.
The reason that there are so few reports of harm is that OCS has
a one person field office in Glennallen, so when the caseworker
is in the field, there is no one to answer the phone and
community members have stopped making reports of harm due to
non-response from OCS.
3:09:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER asked which partnering agencies were
interviewed.
3:10:10 PM
MS. HEUER answered that the CRP talked with schools, troopers,
public health nurses, mental health workers, and tribes. The
panel averages three to six partner contacts, depending on the
size of the community.
3:10:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether some occupations are
mandated reporters [of harm to children].
MS. HEUER explained that mandated reporters call but there is no
one to answer the phone in that region. In response to a
question, she said that voice mail can be three weeks old.
3:11:09 PM
CHAIR WILSON asked whether a statewide number for reporting
harm, or a different phone, is the answer.
MS. HEUER opined that an assistant in the Mat-Su office could
answer the phone when the caseworker is not available. Some
offices have the technology to forward calls to a regional
office; she was unaware if this technology is available in
Glennallen or Valdez.
3:11:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES asked whether reports can be made by a
written form. He recalled that teachers are obligated to
complete a reporting form when there is the suspicion of a
problem.
3:12:28 PM
FRED VAN WALLINGA, Chair, Alaska's Citizen Review Panel, stated
that the CRP was not familiar with the mail-in form. He added
that the people interviewed have a high level of frustration
because they want to meet with the caseworker or make a phone
contact right away. His experience is that he attempted to make
an appointment at the Glennallen OCS office beginning in
November; the first appointment available is in February. One
person serves a huge area and, although it is not her fault,
callers can not reach her. He opined that there should be
someone there to answer the phone so that partnering agencies,
who are mandatory reporters, do not eventually report to the
troopers or other agencies.
3:13:46 PM
MS. HEUER acknowledged that part of the delay can be explained,
but the job at this office is untenable; the territory is
enormous and there are many issues, including the culture.
Nevertheless, OCS is non-responsive at this office.
3:14:37 PM
CHAIR WILSON recalled her experience at the Tok Clinic.
3:14:51 PM
MS. HEUER told the committee that OCS is not totally responsible
for all non-reporting; however, they must be available to
receive reports.
3:15:14 PM
CHAIR WILSON observed that troopers are not always available.
3:15:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER re-stated his question as to how many
agencies and communities are reporting a problem communicating
with OCS.
MR. VAN WALLINGA responded that there have not been follow-up
contacts to faxed reports of harm. The CRP was first told of
the non-response problem by partner agencies in the Copper River
Basin; as a result, CRP findings are that cases are under-
reported in that area.
3:17:34 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER surmised from the annual report that the
CRP has communicated with OCS about these problems.
MR. VAN WALLINGA said yes.
3:17:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA related her work experience in Glennallen.
Her public health group did not have problems making contacts or
appointments. She opined that the lack of technical equipment
is not a general problem with other state offices in the
Glennallen and Copper Center area. Representative Cissna said
that problems, such as alcohol abuse, were discussed at the
schools, although the community may not be very "open." In
addition, that community suffers with severe weather and "people
coming through."
3:20:00 PM
MR. VAN WALLINGA clarified that the problem of 80 percent to 90
percent [of abused children] was not in every community
throughout the Copper River Basin.
3:20:12 PM
MS. HEUER gave an example of a 14-year-old boy in distress who
was refused assistance after the OCS office was contacted by law
enforcement.
3:20:52 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether these cases have been
verified.
MR. VAN WALLINGA said yes; verification was by law enforcement.
MS. HEUER said an investigation was requested. In another
incident, a child in foster care waited weeks for medical care
that required only a signature by an OCS official. In answer to
a question, she explained that OCS was required to sign as the
child's guardian to authorize oral surgery. Ms. Heuer continued
to explain that the CRP looked at many choices for improvements
at OCS and decided to make one urgent recommendation. She told
the committee that a decision was made in December, 2007, to
move the Staff Manager/Supervisor V from the Bethel office to
Wasilla. The Bethel lineworkers were devastated and were
concerned about the loss of their on-site supervisor and
manager. Up to this time, the office had been working very
effectively in collaboration with the tribes. Based on its
investigation in the Bethel region, the CRP recommends the
creation of a fifth OCS region headquartered in Bethel. This
region is the size of the state of Oregon and encompasses 56
villages; it is a region too large to be added to the
responsibilities of the Wasilla office.
3:26:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked for a comparison of the populations
and the incidence of abuse in the existing regions.
MS. HEUER deferred the question to Tammy Sandoval.
3:27:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH asked for the source of the Bethel
sexual abuse rate.
MS. HEUER responded that the rate was reported from trooper
numbers.
3:28:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH stated that the Uniform Crime
Reporting Program (UCR) reported that Fairbanks is number one in
sexual abuse.
CAROL OLSON, Vice Chair, Alaska's Citizen Review Panel, informed
the committee that information on rates of abuse in Alaska can
be found in the committee packet.
3:29:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked whether the Bethel office supervisor
and manager position was vacant at the time of the move to
Wasilla.
MS. HEUER answered that the position was vacant and will now
possibly be eliminated, for financial reasons, and the work
transferred to the Wasilla office.
3:29:32 PM
CHAIR WILSON asked whether there will be an additional position
added in Wasilla.
MS. HEUER indicated not.
3:29:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES noted that positions are sometimes
transferred by the legislative finance committee, not by the
department, because they are unfilled.
3:30:40 PM
MS. HEUER explained that the CRP is not critical of OCS, but is
attempting to identify a need.
3:31:09 PM
MS. HEUER continued to explain that the Bethel field office, the
CRP, and partner agencies in Bethel, recommend that the existing
positions all remain housed in the Bethel area. She stressed
that the Bethel lineworkers need support and kids will be hurt
or die as the result of this move.
3:32:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether the caseworkers in Bethel
are in worse shape than the single worker in the Glennallen
office.
MS. HEUER said yes; workers in Bethel are ready to leave their
positions.
3:32:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH related that the Department of Public
Safety (DPS) is also having staffing problems in Bethel. She
asked whether this situation will be addressed as a part of the
[DHSS] budget with additional information from DPS. She
expressed her belief that this area may need a different
solution than a Western culture approach.
3:34:02 PM
MS. HEUER also noted the CRP's recommendation to fund a
technology update for the Bethel office. The office has no
server and the printing of documents is routed through Anchorage
by a very slow procedure. Additionally, the phone service is
undependable and the voice mail system may be delayed by 24
hours. This is a safety issue for the staff; a functional phone
and computer system are needed now.
3:36:25 PM
MS. HEUER further explained that a new region for the Bethel
area is worth the additional expense in order to maintain: on-
site supervision; the unique relationship with the Yup'ik
culture; and the willing collaboration between OCS and the
tribal agencies.
MS. HEUER in answer to a question, she said that the supervisor
position was vacated two weeks ago.
3:36:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES asked how many CRP members were conducting
the investigation in Bethel, and for how long.
MS. HEUER answered that interviews were conducted in January,
and there are 15 supporting documents from partner agencies in
CRP's 2007 annual report.
3:37:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES related his experience from a former
teacher's perspective.
3:37:59 PM
MS. HEUER stressed that there were almost daily contacts with
the project manager.
3:38:17 PM
MR. VAN WALLINGA added that the Pathways to Hope, Alaska Native
Summit on Child Sexual Abuse, identified this geographic area as
a critical area of need.
3:38:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES expressed his appreciation of the follow-up
investigation that was done by the CRP.
3:38:56 PM
MS. HEUER further noted that additional testimony will follow
from lineworkers at the Bethel office.
3:39:04 PM
CHAIR WILSON related her experience as a public health nurse.
3:40:06 PM
MS. HEUER stated that staff retention is valuable, particularly
in Bethel, because of the Yup'ik language skills of the staff.
3:40:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER expressed his belief that there have been
improvements at the Bethel OCS office over the last five years.
3:40:56 PM
MS. HEUER pointed out that, of the Bethel staff, the worker with
the most tenure had worked there for three years. There is
always a critical loss when staff leaves due to the amount of
time needed to understand the region and the job. She added
that OCS knows what to do to help the community, and the
creation of a region five is the responsive answer to the needs
of the community.
3:41:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH asked whether the CRP had presented
its findings to DHSS.
MS. HEUER said that the CRP had meetings with the commissioner
of DHSS and the director of OCS today and yesterday.
3:42:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH surmised that the administration has
not had much time to respond to this information.
MS. HEUER told the committee that CRP's recommendation was first
presented to the department's liaison on January 10, 2008.
3:42:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH asked whether there had been any
response.
MS. HEUER said no. She continued to explain that the Wasilla
OCS office is in agreement with the formation of a new region.
In fact, the major reason for this recommendation is because the
system is too spread out; the OCS offices need to be local and
have the capability to immediately respond to help kids. Ms.
Heuer stated that the cost of a new region is very little when
compared to the cost of doing nothing. She acknowledged that
there would be a need to fund some new positions, such as a
child services manager, and to pay for the technology to form a
new regional office.
3:44:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether the Bethel office workers
have to use the Anchorage computer system, or whether the
computer hardware in Bethel is the problem.
MS. HEUER responded that the Bethel server is down and the
replacement cost is $12,000; however, the entire computer system
is antiquated and slow to perform functions. With all of the
administrative work required, social workers spend more time in
the office doing clerical work than working with families.
3:46:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether the Wrangell and Petersburg
OCS office routes its printers through Anchorage, also.
MS. HEUER stated that she did not know; however, the system does
not work in Bethel and there is a tremendous volume of computer
work required and little time to do it.
3:47:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether the information can be
stored online.
3:48:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA affirmed that other departments have many
problems with computers in rural areas, also. In fact, in
Seward, there are similar problems with technology.
3:49:19 PM
MR. VAN WALLINGA informed the committee that the CRP interviews
many people, especially lineworkers. Its findings are that
lineworkers cannot do their jobs because there is too much
paperwork, there are problems with the state computer system,
and no one listens to their concerns. The turnover rate for
lineworkers is very high due to their frustration that they are
unable to protect children.
3:50:57 PM
MS. HEUER added that, even in Juneau, social workers are
frustrated and worthy people leave their jobs. She concluded
that the recommendation for a new region is not an expansion,
but a request for supplemental funding to provide child
protection in the Bethel area.
3:52:41 PM
LINDA LORD JENKINS, Ombudsman, Legislative Agencies & Offices,
informed the committee that the rural technology problem today
is not unknown; however, her case records for 2007 did not
reflect any complaints from citizens in Bethel. She
acknowledged that citizens living in the Bush may not be aware
of the resources of the Ombudsman's office.
3:55:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA observed that the Ombudsman's office has a
huge range of responsibility. She asked how many calls were
made concerning OCS.
MS. LORD-JENKINS responded that OCS calls were 12 percent of her
jurisdictional caseload in 2007, 13 percent in 2006, and 16
percent in the first weeks of 2008. She opined that OCS
complaints are complex, time-consuming, and there is a great
deal at stake.
3:56:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked for a description of the kinds of
OCS calls the Ombudsman receives: family or worker.
MS. LORD-JENKINS related that, in 2007, her office received
thirteen complaints related to foster homes; ten complaints
specifically about a lack of communication with caseworkers;
nine complaints about the quality of an OCS investigation; nine
complaints from grandparents or about terms and services
provided by grandparents; six complaints about services and
placement; and five complaints about parents and placement. She
continued to say that there are other cases about a variety of
complaints including, allegations of lying, unfairness, poor
placement decisions, and insufficient home studies.
4:00:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked how many complaints warranted a
larger investigation.
MS. LORD-JENKINS informed the committee that her office did not
complete a formal investigation in 2007; however, the data is
complete back to 2000.
4:01:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked whether the Ombudsman has any
ongoing cases related to the problems heard today.
MS. LORD-JENKINS confirmed that there are ongoing investigations
regarding the quality of OCS investigations, relative placement,
grandparent visitation, and the quality of OCS caseworker
investigations.
4:03:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked whether the Ombudsman issues an
annual report, and whether the data and recommendations are
available to the public.
MS. LORD-JENKINS stated that the annual report produced by her
office is in the form of a letter to the legislature that
outlines statistical information and specific investigations,
when possible. In addition, blind statistics are reported
online. These statistics include a matrix that reports formal
investigations for each department and division. Her office
will soon release an updated recommendations survey that
includes agencies' responses and implementation of
recommendations. Ms. Lord-Jenkins further explained that
reports of complaints are also public information and are
released without the identification of the complainant. When
requested, her office can provide data on the complaints, and
resolutions, for each department back to 2000.
^Overview: Department of Health and Social Services Office of
Children's Services Update
4:06:55 PM
CHAIR WILSON announced that the committee will now hear an
overview from the Office of Children's Services, Department of
Health and Social Services.
4:07:31 PM
TAMMY SANDOVAL, Director, Office of Children's Services,
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS), informed the
committee that, in 2007, OCS received recommendations from
ACTION for Child Protection, Inc., for improvements in four
areas: organization, culture, policy and procedures, and
training. She noted that the CRP incorporated its
recommendations for last year, also. Acting on these
recommendations, OCS concentrated its focus first on areas of
training and curriculum development, including a revision of its
training curriculum.
4:11:58 PM
CHAIR WILSON asked when the new training curriculum will be put
in action.
MS. SANDOVAL responded that implementation of the training
curriculum is in progress and there has been improvement. She
related that 52 percent of those who responded to an employee
survey felt that training was their top concern. Ms. Sandoval
described the actions that her division has taken to address
this concern.
4:13:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked how many supervisors will be
trained with the $427,000 set out in the budget for training.
MS. SANDOVAL responded that there are approximately 40
supervisors; however, the money will also augment new worker
training and will support continuing education for experienced
workers. The next ACTION recommendation, a re-write of policies
and procedures, is in progress by a standing committee.
4:16:27 PM
MS. SANDOVAL stated, in answer to a question, that over 20
policies and procedures have been reviewed and revised.
4:17:12 PM
CHAIR WILSON asked whether the revision will be finished by the
end of the year.
MS. SANDOVAL expressed her feeling that policy revisions are
never finished due to changing federal and state laws, best
practices, and initiatives that change policies and procedures.
Ms. Sandoval stated that her division is on its way to revising
and implementing practice standards and a draft paper is ready
for review. The last recommendation by ACTION for Child
Protection, Inc., was to improve communication. She pointed out
that OCS has 500 staff and is challenged to effectively
communicate; she is looking at other state's solutions. She
began her response to the presentation by the CRP and said that
she feels passionately about the importance of tribal
partnerships with OCS; however, OCS general staff was not
allowed to participate in the Pathways to Hope Summit on Child
Abuse.
4:23:18 PM
MS. SANDOVAL told the committee that the move of the supervisor
and manager position from Bethel to Wasilla has been put on
hold.
4:23:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether this position was vacant.
MS. SANDOVAL further explained that the position was vacant in
January, and the regional manager requested a position location
change.
4:26:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether the position was vacant
when the decision was made.
MS. SANDOVAL said no.
4:28:30 PM
CHAIR WILSON asked about the possibility of the creation of a
new region.
MS. SANDOVAL agreed with the "notion" of a fifth region;
however, she estimated the startup costs of a new region to be
$1.5 million, and $800,000 per year thereafter. She agreed that
the ideal situation would be a region for western Alaska.
4:29:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA observed that, from her daily contacts,
some of these communities feel that DHSS is out of the picture.
She recalled that the problems in Wasilla last year, and now in
Bethel, increase her concern that DHSS is not building and
maintaining relationships in the community, or maintaining the
morale of its caseworkers. She cited the example of
administrators who are not aware of problems with the working
team.
MS. SANDOVAL asked for clarification of the question.
4:32:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA emphasized that the state needs workers
that are ready to respond and can do the job for kids. Workers
under pressure and without support from above can not fill the
role of protecting kids.
4:33:34 PM
MS. SANDOVAL recalled that her first concern is the retention of
workers and that this is a recognized problem in her division.
Searching for solutions to the retention problem is an on-going
process; in fact, OCS handles the hardest work within the DHSS,
because its population does not welcome its help. Longstanding
issues of child abuse, child neglect, domestic violence, and
poverty play a part [in the non-retention of workers].
Nevertheless, Ms. Sandoval acknowledged her responsibility.
4:35:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA spoke of her experience as a former foster
parent and care provider, and related the problem with a
triangulated system. She explained that foster parents get
investigated when they advocate for kids. In addition, workers
feel their assistance is not welcome, even though foster parents
need and want help. She opined that adversaries can not get
things done.
4:36:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER pointed out that many non-custodial
parents do not make it to counseling, and thus, those in
counseling may not be representative of the population. She
then asked about the problem with poorly functioning technology.
Lastly, she then expressed her belief that tribal involvement is
the key to seriously addressing child protection issues and
asked whether OCS can develop a role to support tribal
government and local communities.
MS. SANDOVAL recalled that there was a computer upgrade last
year; however, about two months ago, the system began to break
down again. At this time, the management information system
(ORCA) is a problem for other departments, also. Ms. Sandoval
assured the committee that she and the information technology
department are aware of the problem.
4:40:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether Ms. Sandoval knew why this
is a huge problem for Bethel and not for Anchorage.
MS. SANDOVAL opined that there is a problem with the satellite
systems in rural and remote areas. Turning to the second
question, she agreed that OCS must work in partnership with
tribal leaders for child welfare. She stated that her motto is
"Nothing about us, without us," and that she strives to live by
that. Often decisions are made quickly and mistakes are made.
Furthermore, when sixty percent of the foster child population
is Alaska Native it is imperative that OCS must listen, engage,
and understand the tribal issues in order to decrease the
numbers of kids in care.
4:42:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER stressed that the role includes promoting
tribal leadership on the issue and providing what is needed.
4:43:20 PM
CHAIR WILSON noted that there are some examples of dysfunction.
4:43:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER encouraged OCS to look for leaders with
skills and talents. She then asked for the percentages of
caseloads in each region and whether there is a corresponding
amount of money spent in each region.
MS. SANDOVAL stated that she did not have that data on hand;
however, she will provide it to the committee. In response to a
comment, she stated that one-half of the caseload is in
Anchorage, but services there cost less than in other areas of
the state.
4:45:36 PM
CHAIR WILSON encouraged Ms. Sandoval to provide a better phone
system for Glennallen and to consider the formation of a fifth
region. She also stressed that the server should be replaced.
4:47:34 PM
MS. SANDOVAL said that she was unaware of the Glennallen phone
problem and agreed that it must be fixed. She shared her hope
for the creation of designated regional phone intake positions
in the future, and noted that communities are not aware of the
800 phone number posted online. Ms. Sandoval assured the
committee that the Bethel office will get the server problem
resolved.
4:49:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER suggested the installation of call
forwarding.
4:49:34 PM
CHAIR WILSON said the committee will look for OCS's response.
4:50:17 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee
meeting was adjourned at 4:50 p.m.
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